Diplomacy

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UesugiKenshin
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Re: Diplomacy

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The creators of Star Trek always knew that there were issues with the premise as in 1966, the idea of globalism was widely unpopular. When STTNG was in its first few years, widespread downsizing causing waves of unemployment due to globalism, and if made a central focus, then would have killed the regenesis of the series.

So in its first few episodes, globalism was the natural end result of the "post-atomic horror" ie a devastated Earth ruined by nuclear war, then has the survivors band together to remediate that dystopic outcome. Globalism was touted as the solution that brought humanity.back from the brink.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S1x80ULA9bI

Star Trek never earned its success as we have yet to see how this occurred. All series fully skirted the post-atomic horror.

The reality is there is little energy to keep up the facade of globalism as that ends up empowering a horrendous repressive China that is the absolute antithesis of diversity. That has been made abundantly clear in a post-Covid 19 world and utterly broken supply lines.

To make all literature and tv and film believable, an author must allow and foster "a suspension of disbelief" which is extremely difficult to begin with in the science fiction genre with the only more difficult genre being horror.

At the same time, characters must resonnate with the viewers so that people would identify and enjoy roleplaying them.

Look at the roster for BotE. Would you as an enlightened human being want to be the Heyoun, the Khaorans, the Rotharians, the Catare, the Omega or even the Terrans? I would say that few millennials and Gen Z players would feel any affinity for any of them. Every Boomer and Gen Xers has to ignore the nagging facts of the various Star Trek series to want to play as these six, and likely to play them as they should have been portrayed ie "to fix them" so they are consistent.

That affects all diplomacy dialogue which is one of the scant ways the players actually have any interaction with up to 156 different extraterrestrials.

As interesting as BotE is, that interest is theoretical, not actual within the experience of the game.
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Re: Diplomacy

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VY_6JtCMe_E
The ugly truth is eugenics which is implied to reemerge in the Star Trek universe (see Botany Bay and Khan) is actually from a progressive history of western civilization. Yet the entire show is based on lauding progressive values! It strains all disbelief to the point of incredulity.
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Re: Diplomacy

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BotE stands on its own as it has a very different mythos versus Star Trek and say the Federation.

Terran Coalition

Existing breed description:
German-Symbol.jpgPeople live in a society based on the values ​​of freedom and fairness. Their strength lies in the extremely effective research that gives them quick access to new technologies. People also excel in the areas of industrial production, the extraction of raw materials and the supply of their planets with energy as well as all essential goods, even if their high-quality products demand their cost in terms of effort and resources. Although you show slight weaknesses in the area of ​​the secret service due to your morals, you can come up with ships protected by strong shields that are capable of performing both individually and in a group.


Existing storyline:

German-Symbol.jpgEarth, 2121: The Third World War is long in the past, the future looks optimistic for humanity again. Interstellar spaceflight begins to conquer the entire galaxy with all of its fascinating worlds, life forms, types and anomalies. Brave men and women are eager to find a new home, new life and contact with other civilizations. They want to face the unknown and explore the unexplored.

Storyline suggestion:
German-Symbol.jpg

It was a long way until people on their planet could live together in peace and socially balanced.

In the old days, people were mostly about who had the greatest power, territorial expansion or economic strength. Due to a lack of progress, the conflicts and wars were initially localized, later they continued to expand and culminated in three so-called world wars. In between there were somewhat peaceful times, but there was always war or conflict somewhere on the planet.


The third world war:

The Third World War was also only a matter of time. Due to conflicts surrounding living conditions in some regions (unemployment, hunger, lack of water), there were major migratory movements on the planet. The struggle for raw materials also led to further conflicts. In addition, the lifestyles and moods of the individual peoples differed. At some point, the ever worsening problems led to the outbreak of the Third World War, when individual peoples formed factions.

Due to technical progress, in contrast to the wars before, several peoples were now able to use nuclear weapons in the Third World War, and this happened. In a very short time, entire regions were depopulated, large areas completely uninhabitable and metropolises turned into dust. At that time, humanity was on the verge of extinction.

The war ended on its own when governments and military were lost in the nuclear fire. It had only lasted a few hours. There was no winner, everyone had lost. But there were, of course, survivors.

The only positive thing that the Third World War had was the understanding of a global agreement. The post-war period welded humanity together simply because of the need to fight the struggle for survival together. An international global government emerged and the collapsed monetary system was completely abolished. Humanity learned a valuable lesson at that time: only if they all held together did they have a chance to survive this catastrophe.


Departure into the galaxy:

This spirit persisted even in later times, when humanity began to fly into space to spread out into the galaxy with all its fascinating worlds, ways of life, types and anomalies. Brave men and women were and still are eager to find new life and new contacts with other civilizations and to establish new colonies. They want to face the unknown and explore the unexplored.

An interim event is also worth mentioning: According to the old era, it was the year 12121, now called the new space-time, the time 121000.0, when the international global government made the decision that Terran spacecraft should leave the domestic sector to to advance into the depths of the galaxy.

The other planets in the home sol system had also been settled by now, and nothing stood in the way of their flourishing, except that the great population losses caused by the Third World War could still be made up for. The government must first pay particular attention to food production so that famines never occur again.

... and the galaxy still has many more challenges for humans ...
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Re: Diplomacy

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There are 7.8 billion officially known human beings and obviously there are more not known or politically registered. Only a fool would say they have much in common in terms of attributes.

Similarly, it would be foolish and shallow to think of racial characteristics for the minor and major species. Say with bribery, well that may merely be a function of political systems involving diplomacy and specific to extraterrestrial communications and not a general aspect of their own interspecies domestic dialogue. Some may see bribery as a necessary mundane aspect of diplomacy or they may be as corrupt as US congress members.

In Star Trek there are eras in which the Klingons depicted may be dastardly or the epitome of honor as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvXDPjcDZCI&app=desktop
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Judgment_(episode)

Advocate Kolos is a fine example of the latter.Both characters named Duras would certainly be the former.

With good modding, there would be far more expansion of exposure to various diverse species and the players would experience this range of expression.

Otherwise think how hoplessly one dimensional the species would be.
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Re: Diplomacy

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After turn 630+, fewer and fewer minor races join as members without serious diplomatic initiatives, and likely your increases in "acceptance" are by waging peace on a huge map as there is no logical reason as you lack infrastructure and cashflow to wage war. Not in any militarily sound way and to do so is extremely ill advised.

You would be building wasted ships and toward no purpose and they would be quaint artifacts as technology marches on.

However, the minor races warm to you. It's better to offer gifts and get them to a neutral diplomatic stance. Let them initiate trade as by no means would any such trade actually occur. Rapidly they will then initiate friendship, cooperation, and alliances...as your few antiquated ships have the semblance of a strong presence merely by gaining experience by sitting in orbit at your capital.

It's dangerous folly to play against the Humans as they get so many early members that they will likely absorb fleets. The AI humans will use them for sure for unnecessary conquest. What a waste.

The Khaoans are worthy adversaries on a giant maxed out map.
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Re: Diplomacy

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The human player will likely gain no membership from minor races with fleets after turn 630 regardless of what major race they play. That is as it should be as they should be overcome eventually by war. If there are 40x40 sectors, what makes that sector owned by a minor race so valuable that you have to have it at any cost?

Even with a high acceptance rate (over 90%), still such powerful minor races with fleets will likely maintain self-determination and autonomy rather than join even though they would be better off doing so.
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Re: Diplomacy

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BotE's Humans as a major race claim to be globalist and progressive when in fact after absorbing many members, they end up as dastardly as the Terran Empire.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sfbsZRbwbJ4

But that is how the AI plays them. Every time I have encountered them they issue THREATS and extortion.

As the Omega, I have not harmed a fly and even helped my enemies. Don't be fooled by false perceptions.
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Re: Diplomacy

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Whether you believe it or not, the books, magazines, journal articles, websites, radio, television, film, professors, pundits, politicians, pastors, teachers, actors, youtube commentors, friends, relatives, lovers, practically every form of communication and all people...affect your belief system. Unless you are a hermit alone in a remote woods with no contact and no forms of transmitted information, yet even then, you had parents and an upbringing, so no one is reeally free to develop their own ideas untainted by communication and transmission of ideas.

But as diverse as the people are across the spectrum of spirituality, ethnicity, nationality, sexuality, ethos, education, etc...there are a basis for frames of reference. You at least pretend to understand their motivations and what they label morality...because they are human beings. Sometimes...dogs have more morality.

Now you have been prepared with a variety of ideas about extraterrestrials. They can be as monsterous like the Thing and no diplomacy is plausible as that species is a killing machine. It does not want to negotiate except to lie to end your life and live on as the semblance of you.

It's not the cute cuddly childlike exobotanist called ET who gets accidentally left behind as he runs out of time before the rest of the crew must depart or risk cultural contamination.

Other aliens like Klaatu are galactic law enforcement officers who issue demands and directives, and while seeminly benign and offering a cure for disease, it comes with the price of compliance or unspeakable annhilation by being burnt to a cinder. I guess the innocent human children just have to perish despite having no responsibility for the actions of adult humans?

Your minds have been inculcated with a range of ideas, yet you suppress them when dealing with major and minor extraterrestrials in Birth of the Empires. Why? Because of the potential to gain wealth,technological advance by starship construction, ships, special buildings conferring attributes, etc.

You know it's dangerous, but, "Can't we all just get along?". Not really, no. In actually, the minor alien races can't leave their homesector, so pose no direct threat...unless your opponents gain their ships. Then they are your potential enemies just like the major alien races.

The major aliens are all genuine threats as the idea of the game is to win, not embrace diversity and get awarded a diplomatic victory. Not really, for if you were to keep playing, they will sabotage and kill you.

BotE has multiple goals and achievement points,but regardless, if you keep playing, it's for keeps through WAR!
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Re: Diplomacy

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Chess is not warm and emotional, but sterile and clinical and based on war.

BotE is like chess and elegant and not full of animations as entertainment with implausible fiery explosions in the vacuum of space ie there is no oxygen to support combustion. We don't even know if the force of explosions would be transmitted in space. It seems likely, but we are thinking of being Earthbound versus in endless empty space time.

It can be more, but have no illusions. The way the moral.data is written is pugnacious as your major species is not like THEM. They are in the same boat.

If BotE was played totally by the computer, it would be merciless.
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Re: Diplomacy

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The way wars unfold is when one group has no shared frames of reference and no commonality with another group. They do not individually share morality and they do not share corporately ethics across their society.

And this is simplistic. Humans don't have a monoculture. We have a plethora of cultures and sometimes an amalgam of culture...as suggested by advertising and marketing...which are illusionary.
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Re: Diplomacy

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You can have the desire to get along and actually be allies, but truly...the AI will end up malevolent. It does not grasp altrusim. It does understand winning.

It would take a very remarkable AI to act altruistically and likely over a brief period as at some point it has to seek to win to eliminate opponents and gain the upper hand.

That would take campaign scripting as the AI would re-evaluate its priorities and motivations based on the length and the turn time as it approaches milestones.

I get it as I play for hundreds of turns in a naive optimistic beneficent way to get along despite knowing all this. That is what it means to be human, as it's ugly to be an oppressor and a conquerer.
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Re: Diplomacy

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This is why I have a lot of ethusiasm to create an advanced turn#600 game where I would build up every empire. What would the AI do then? It's safe and stable and balanced. It has surplus resources and money and can defend itself.

Does that facilitate war or peace? Probably war, but whoever attacks, likely loses, and then ends up capitulating as other empires pounce on the spent foe.

So the ultimate winner is the last to engage in war, as they have the most military forces not used up by attrition and so they are stronger.

Whoever wins by conquering has the potential to win, largely because of absorbing technology from minor aliens...not absorbing colonies as they will need tobe rebuilt and pacified. Occupationis expensive and a thankless job. More land is not better if the occupied people are bitter...and revolt.

So think, who gets the best minor alien technology? The Terran Coalition who is designed for peace, but never is peaceful.
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Re: Diplomacy

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We presume that extraterrestrials would love their spouses based on romance. Why would that be so if they arose in a totally random form? We think that extraterrestrials would love their children, when they may be entirely dispassionate about it. That process while exhilarating to us, may be mechanical to them.

Death may be a release to them from misery, and life may be ugly, not full of joy and mirth.

It would actually be strange to find commonality. If you meet cruel inhuman people of another species, how are they be worth having diplomatic relations...unless you wish to exploit them?

If that is the case, then you disagree with the very idea of human morality and ethos you expect to find in extraterrestrials.
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Re: Diplomacy

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It would be delightful to find commonality and acquire new genuine friends. It would fascinating. The chances seem slim...even remote that anything which humans feel would be shared.

See in xenocommunications, this is a central issue. You can't communicate with your dog...not truly, so how will humans communicate with the Khaoran or the Cartare or the Brane? To communicate means shared ideas and commonality of morality and ethics.

You don't feel commonality with a parasite or a cockroach.
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Re: Diplomacy

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BotE is much more than a mere computer and tablet game. If you think it's just that, well...that is okay, but the deeper philosophical questions are much more compelling.

A BotE 2.0 would be story driven and there would be moral quandries and missions with an AI that has a wide spectrum of goals and moods based on turn#s.

What would you do if your alien best friend wants you to help their species accomplish some goal that is repugnant to human beings, but universally would make their species be thrilled?
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