Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

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UesugiKenshin
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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 14:09

The Rotharians only inhabit 22 sectors, so it's actually kind of mean as I have been continuous applying diplomatic sabotage as they are so weak they cannot block it like the Cartare who have 37.

It's hard to bribe a minor race away, at least as the Omega. Even though I can often slowly increase their diplomatic stance to even devoted, it is at zero percent, thus it's extremely unlikely they would ever join. And then after a 5000 credit bribe, they flip right back to being under the thumb of the same empire.

As I have alliances, I could park fleets everywhere that the Cartare and Rotharian member colonial sectors are. Eventually that might work.

It would be amusing if I could bribe Cartare colonial sectors away. That is a mean tactic in Civ2 and Civ3 albeit can be monstrously expensive if garrisoned. Or if diplomatic sabotage mean starting a revolution by supporting opposition groups.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 14:12

Right now the Omega have a 1000 % military sabotage bonus and a 965% military espionage bonus, so literally I could ruin all their starships and troops. I just am not mean, but I'm not going to let them sabotage me either.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 15:01

Turn #416
Treasury 117.5 million (22.9 million gained in a single turn!)
Armada size 1098 ships.

A Rotharian fleet at Hylai lost their cool and attacked an Omega colony ship. I tried various options to avoid it. The colony ship had terraformed all but one planet and was at 22%. I redirected the colony ship to Gaspar, because unless I did that, it was going to be an eventual bloodbath, 99% Rotharian blood as it is insane to attack the Omega.

It is particularly insane as a massive fleet (the Ik group @ Ozawa)is in the region comprised of 28 capitol ships. It was actually 2 fleets and I fat fingered it, and planned on splitting in. Besides that two other fleets are bearing down on the region and almost there.

Technically it would smarter to use that as a Casus belli as we had an alliance and they violated it on the last turn. Just now, it has expired. See the AI is moronic that way. War seems inevitable, and certainly I have provoked it as their diplomacy with minor races is in a shambles.

Hooray, I guess?
Zuletzt geändert von UesugiKenshin am Samstag 21. November 2020, 15:30, insgesamt 4-mal geändert.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 15:11

It's up to you as you can deploy a humongous fleet as one to a single sector, and then split it up, or dispatch four fleets directly to their destinations. However when dealing with 1098 ships, it's simpler to send a group (say 60) as one, but it may be slightly faster the latter way.

The Omega have multiple experienced fleets with enormous firepower poised all along their borderlands

Can you imagine how badly they could just bomb the Rotharians into the Stone Age in every sector? I don't actually have to fight them as I can sabotage them into smoking ruins.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 15:22

I don't actually have to take their settlements, but having Rotharian ships and abilities is compelling. It would be amusing to wreck them so they are totally naked and 100% vulnerable and let the Khaorin take those helpless Rotharian colonial sectors.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 15:25

For the longest time, I've been curious with this scenario.

If the Khaorin take the Rotharian or any empire, and take minor race's starships, and I conquer the Khaorin, does that winning empire get all of those abilities and starships? Nobody has ever answered and I am not bloodthirsty enough...yet...to try it. Maybe the Omega should as maybe it would amuse them a diversion? :twisted:

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 15:34

Why would the Omega allow the Khaorin to take those Rotharian colonial sectors? That uses up Khaoran cashflow as they would improve those formerly Rotharian colonial sectors, so not making starships and troops. It actually would deplete their ground invasion forces through attrition, and so weaken their defensive capability in the long run.

The Omega ground forces are ready, but far away. So while they did the tough work, mine would advance and could even attack undefended Khaoran colonial sectors (as those troops were sent to Rotharian colonial sectors to invade). It just depends how devious you are.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 17:41

I'm going to take my time
I have all the time in the world
To make you mine
It is written in the stars above
The gods decree
You'll be right here by my side
Right next to me
You can run but you cannot hide
Depeche Mode (amusing and ironic because the name meaning in a hurried fashion in French).
Why make so many starships? The more you rush, the higher commodities prices inflate, and then immediately you sell the largest caches of those commodities off to net millions.

Some may ask, "wouldn't it be wiser to let the ore and crystals accumulate"?

Yes...but BotE is set up so a maximum of 125,000 is allowed, then no more, and in the special case of deritium, the maximum is only a 100! Use it or lose it.

What I suggest is that since at this point you probably are using resource routes, you likely have 3 colonial sectors benefiting from these large accumulations, so as a rule of thumb, I sell down the cache to no less than 60,000 so I do NOT create accidental draw downs as up to 9 or even 11 colonial sectors might be drawing from this cache in unusual circumstances. This seems to work well.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 17:55

Wargames are peculiar as it's considered masterful to rapidly defeat an opponent at chess, thus as that is arguably the standard for all wargames (or Go if considering actual history), then this influences all wargame strategy.

But it's not accurate from a military perspective. One does not always attack early on to prevent a buildup by a potential ally or enemy. Nope, that be using weak units and potentially lose them.

There is no rush as this is a galaxy comprised not of planets or solar systems but 20 light year sectors of space time: a staggering amount of real estate. We are not arguing over a minor border dispute.

It also is not very interesting to attack and seize the sector of potential friends. Anyone who thinks it is, is probably a bit obtuse and not a science fiction fan. Every sector is actually a money pit as it requires an enormous investment that never results in adequate taxes. If you did that early, you would run out of money and have terrible cashflow and be unable to so rapidly get strong. It would take 300 to 400 more turns and probably more like 600 turns.

My way is extremely efficient and logical and proven over the last 7+ months.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 18:05

I find it dreadfully dull when some wargame player excitedly creates a youtube video showing how they can rapidly redeploy forces and consolidate these experienced veterans. Then they push this border forward, and build streams of units going to the battlefront to support continual war.

If you actually did that, you would have anarchy as the citizens would be furious that you had focused entirely on a war machine and treated their brothers, sons, uncles, and fathers like expendable pawns. That is mindless to the point of obsession. Every soldier is away and who the heck is ruling in all these conquered lands? It strains all credibility. And were you to send units out like that without officers, for hundreds and thousands of miles, there is no guarantee they would arrive. Most likely crazy things would happen like when crusaders sacked towns that were actual Christian towns!

"Hey there is a rich city and they are defenseless and we are soldiers, so let's plunder it!"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Constantinople
That actually happened to Constantinople in 1204.

Such gameplay proves nothing except to beginners who having never won before think this is superior gameplay.
"Wow! He crushed them in record time!"

Yawn. He showed the AI is not that capable at redeploying forces versus a human player.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 18:16

You want the AI to challenge you, right? Not just crush it.

This advanced saved game is made so you can practice with vastly superior units to showcase what BotE can do when it is organized by a modder versus just random.

The next logical step is to do this for all empires and then have a realistically difficult galaxy where the AI has an excellent chance of surviving and thriving and defeating other empires.

You learn here, and then when I make something quite difficult, you will be ready for a nail biter where the AI is extremely strong. Little errors will be fatal later.

I made this so beginners can do anything.
A later version would allow all empires to do anything. That will be realistic and hairy.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 18:33

Just in one nation, there are any number of political groups who so badly want to lead, that some will do anything to get that power. That is exactly what is going on in the USA right now. You would not believe the corruption by the Democrats as maybe 7 million votes were either stolen or outright lies. 33% of even Democrat supporting citizens feel the election was stolen. People are up in arms over that and the idea of losing property rights through a "A Great Reset".

So you can imagine what it would be like in sectors of the galaxy. This is why based on government type, there might be 6 or more political parties in GalCiv2 and they may prevent a war even though you as the player badly want to attack.

So BotE could be configured where if the moral score is too low, you can't build or recruit starships or troops or wage war as across the empire, as you lack a mandate as you are not popular enough.

And diplomatic sabotage may directly or indirectly attack an empire's moral score so to foment frustration and weaken a rival empire.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 20:19

Still turn #416

The Humans are angry, I gather because they are loyal to the Khaoran and Rotharians, both of who are hateful to the Omega. I have done nothing to the Khaoran or Humans except I am spying on them. I could annihilate everyone, but am acting in very restrained ways, and probably more so that 99% of players.

The Cartare and the Heyoun are devoted to the Omega and I am actually terraforming both of their planets, which not only make the planet available, but actually makes infrastructure as well. I'm planning on terraforming the entire galaxy.

It is as though BotE intentionally makes the other empires jealous or upset on a scheduled basis to cause conflict to be much higher so that war will occur.

Only an imbecile would provoke the Omega now as there would zero chance of achieving a measurable positive outcome, but a withering counterattack, not only on the instigator, but their colonial sectors.

In the case of the Humans, they would benefit from the Rotharians being ruined as would the Khaoran. If the Omega attack the Rotharians, both pick up at least scraps, possibility vital systems.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Samstag 21. November 2020, 20:26

Maybe 20 turns ago, I did a test where the Cartare were attacked by the Omega and the Khaoran and Rotharians then also attacked the Omega. That is immensely stupid for both of them as reactions gaining them nothing and at inconsequential cost to the Omega. All five empires could launch all they have and it would be like mosquito bites.

It is as they they are not weighing the vast difference in military size and strength, and only looking a rock paper scissors formula. It should be a weighted decision based on risk versus loss. There isn't a chance of success if they attack the Omega unless that is meant to be a challenge as it is inevitable the Omega will win. It's suicidal and not taking one for the team because it helps in some way.

Losing space battles or even sectors is not the worst outcome. The worst be would crushing humiliation for all five where they're alive, but utterly powerless and can only watch their doom.

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Re: Advanced Save Game Six Empires Huge Map and Minor Races

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Sonntag 22. November 2020, 00:50

I don't know how the rest of you play BotE, but I see no ultimate advantage to allowing commodity prices to rise past even a single turn. After so many turns as I have accumulated a treasury due to adequate cashflow, I then rush construction. That makes the commodity rise within a single turn, and I immediately sell that inflated commodity until all are about 100 credits. I do this consistently and this is a predictable process creating colossal gains.

I have tried all kinds of complex systems of commodity price manipulation by sustained growth, followed by routine profit taking, but this simple method nets the highest profit. It works for rushing buildings, troops, or starships.

You can make it work with 4 mines of each, but I find the following to create a large predictable cache of natural resources and a predictable profit.
10 mines of titanium
6 mines of deuterium
5 mines of duranium
5 mines of crystal
5 mines of iridium

The crystal mines produce far less accumulated amounts. If a colonial sector lacks all 5 standard natural resources, then I will try the following.
10 titanium mines
10 of whatever else is available
10 of whatever 3rd resource is available.

These excess mines pay off despite great redundancy as some sectors lack critical resources and can be routed wherever required. Great redundancy is wise as if you were attacked through bombardment, some may be damaged, yet you still have more than enough mines.

I hate doing resource routes, not because it is difficult, but because it wastes so much time. For the first 300 turns, it is far faster to just buy what you need and have it turn up a turn later. But that means understanding what every building costs, and so anticipating required levels of inventory. That whole science of logistics is now called Just in Time manufacturing and inventory controls.

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